mattharrisuk:

The people that are all up in arms against it are normally the people with something to hide, or having nothing better to do then cause a fuss about something thats not going to make much of a difference to their life.

Some things not to like about ID cards;

1) There'll be some huge big database with more information about everyone of us in one place than there has ever been before

2)...which means there's more information about every one of us than there has ever been before now sitting on a laptop on the train standing on platform 5 which the drunk civil servant has just fallen out of.

3) Its security systems have already been hacked

4) We don't know what this or future governments will chose to do with the information stored. Paranoid? I was extremely shocked to find out that governments of both major parties had found it perfectly acceptable to sell the electoral register to not only credit reference agencies but marketing organisations too. It took the European Court of Yooman Rites to allow you to opt out of the marketing organisations.

5) We don't know what various agencies will be able to access if they get hold of your ID card. You need your ID card to join the library (because you will soon enough). What will the librarian be able to see?

6) Once carrying ID cards becomes compulsory (which it will) it will be an excellent tool for police harassment. The police will continue to stop a disproportionately large number of young black males. Of the ones who haven't otherwise done anything wrong a proportion will have left their ID cards at home. They are therefore also nicked.

7) None of the IT companies designing the systems have a record of producing anything resembling a system that functions for less than about 5 times the budget they originally quoted. The Tax Credits system was virtually unusable and the NHS one is a basket case. So if none of the above things go wrong, something else will.

8) And of course, you DO have to pay for it.

Sorry, here endeth the lesson

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How easily, bit by bit, we give up our rights and freedoms to central government. This current lot are simply incompetent and can't be trusted with vast centralised databases - it may sound fanciful now, but future governments may be rather more competent and a bit less benign.

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mattharrisuk:

We carry credit cards, debit cards, NI cards, phone cards, drivers license.

With the exception of the NI card which we don't carry around anyway and contains very little personal information, the rest are all voluntary - take em or leave em.

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This current lot are simply incompetent and can't be trusted with vast centralised databases - it may sound fanciful now, but future governments may be rather more competent and a bit less benign. Sue Allen

Oh dear has this thread suddenly turned into a what annoyed me or grumpy gits thread?

I love the way people see loss of data as a government of the day issue. I agree with veggiesosage that a vast database is not to be welcomed and to me it does not matter which government is in power. Will civil servants , serving officers in security / the army be any less likely to leave stuff on a train / in a taxi/ etc if and when the Tories get in? It`s basic human incompetence at fault and basically as machines we cannot be trusted to safely secure such vast databases.

I am getting a bit fed up with a few things lately

- suddenly everyone knew the credit crunch was coming as rants over the last weeks as a hit against Brown and his government - funny hopw it seemed to take virtually every government in the world by surprise but I bow to those of you who knew it was coming and have said so on here

- another child abuse case another what the hell are Socail Services child protection people doing. terrible tragic stuff and it makes me ashamed that there are monsters in our midst who can perpetrate such deeds. But whilst I am ambivalent towards many of the social workers I have met I have no doubt that they are often hard working, buried in deperate cases that you can only guess at, underpaid and under valued and probably if unfortunate enough to be linked to one of these tragic cases I would guess feel worse than most of us of their failure to make a difference where needed - but are they any worse than you or me. They try to do a job but when things go horribly wrong there are worse consequences than not delivering a widget or not getting Mr X`s car sorted in time. It is the perpetrators who are the monsters and we should not lose sight of that.

 

Anyway - what made me feel good today - getting an invite to the launch / cvhristmas party  of the country house hotel I did a load of promotional pics for as a first photography  job a few months back. Their website is yet to be launched with my pics but the upmarket Johansens guide features some butchered copies of my pics to fit their standard layout at http://www.johansens.com/destinations/Small_Hotel-England-East_Riding_of_Yorkshire-Kilham-Kilham_Hall.aspx

and some better ones at laterooms http://www.laterooms.com/en/hotel-pictures/149981_kilham-hall-driffield.aspx

I thought I was forgotten but may be an opportunity to meet other hoteliers and get another job - at the very leat a weekend away again

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I thought my point was that ALL governments can be as bad as each other  -but in different ways - this one have simply taken incompetence to a new level but I don't imagine a change of ruling party will have a massive effect.

And as for blaming Brown etc. - well, have'nt they all told us what a towering financial brain he has and how our years of plenty were all down to him.....surely someone of his stature should have seen something amiss before us mere mortals did. Is'nt that why we pay people to look after things for us??

Child abuse cases and related social issues? Perhaps it's time we all became just a bit more judgemental and did'nt go along with the 'it's their life choice' mantra when children are living in filthy chaotic conditions with uncaring or irresponsible parent/s.

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There are already huge government databases full of our data - such as the Inland Revenue and Customs. They lost lots of data last year relating to children.

When it comes to DNA databases and ID cards, how much do you trust the government? I was at the Biometrics conference in 2004, and there was a speaker from Chile, where a lot of exciting biometric work is going on. What if Pinochet had all of this data and technology when he was dictator there? He would have been able to find and murder a lot more people.

How do we know how this data will be used in future? There's a phrase 'function creep'. It describes the situation where data is collected for one purpose, and then people in power think 'Hey, we've got all this info, we can use it in other ways as well!' That's where the problems start. Maybe they might start selling the info, maybe to heatlth insurance companies who are lobbying for this.

 

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chris@seary.com:

There's a phrase 'function creep'. It describes the situation where data is collected for one purpose, and then people in power think 'Hey, we've got all this info, we can use it in other ways as well!'

I thought that was called Data Mining?

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sue allen:

I thought my point was that ALL governments can be as bad as each other  -but in different ways - this one have simply taken incompetence to a new level but I don't imagine a change of ruling party will have a massive effect.

Doesn't matter who you vote for, Sue. The bloody government always get in!

sue allen:

Child abuse cases and related social issues? Perhaps it's time we all became just a bit more judgemental and did'nt go along with the 'it's their life choice' mantra when children are living in filthy chaotic conditions with uncaring or irresponsible parent/s.

Absolutely, Sue. Couldn't agree more. There's a lot of nonsense spouted about discrimination and class.

But there's there's only one real underdog - the child! Children need to be stood up for, not the parents.

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Chris Seary

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1/2 a million people or so turn up for a march against the hunting ban.....

the same year 120 people or so turn up for a march against child abuse

Nice to see people have their priorities right.

 

Anyway WMMFGT (which is what this thread is isn't it?)

The sun is shining, me thinks I may go up to Richmond Park at lunchtime got me camera with me so we'll see.... went the other day beautiful day only got 3 semi-decent shots but hey ho, was about 10mm away from getting a great shot of a wood pecker just put the camera to my eye he was in the tree on a lowish branch would've made a great shot and the little feller flew off .....now I know how OB felt trying to get that kingfisher...

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veggiesosage:

mattharrisuk:

The people that are all up in arms against it are normally the people with something to hide, or having nothing better to do then cause a fuss about something thats not going to make much of a difference to their life.

Some things not to like about ID cards;

1) There'll be some huge big database with more information about everyone of us in one place than there has ever been before

2)...which means there's more information about every one of us than there has ever been before now sitting on a laptop on the train standing on platform 5 which the drunk civil servant has just fallen out of.

3) Its security systems have already been hacked

4) We don't know what this or future governments will chose to do with the information stored. Paranoid? I was extremely shocked to find out that governments of both major parties had found it perfectly acceptable to sell the electoral register to not only credit reference agencies but marketing organisations too. It took the European Court of Yooman Rites to allow you to opt out of the marketing organisations.

5) We don't know what various agencies will be able to access if they get hold of your ID card. You need your ID card to join the library (because you will soon enough). What will the librarian be able to see?

6) Once carrying ID cards becomes compulsory (which it will) it will be an excellent tool for police harassment. The police will continue to stop a disproportionately large number of young black males. Of the ones who haven't otherwise done anything wrong a proportion will have left their ID cards at home. They are therefore also nicked.

7) None of the IT companies designing the systems have a record of producing anything resembling a system that functions for less than about 5 times the budget they originally quoted. The Tax Credits system was virtually unusable and the NHS one is a basket case. So if none of the above things go wrong, something else will.

8) And of course, you DO have to pay for it.

Sorry, here endeth the lesson

When you consider what people are voluntarily exposing about themselves thru Facebook and MySpace, not to mention all those amateur porn sites this is a tempest in a teapot. I do however agree that your 4th point is a major concern.

Oh and your point number 6 is a complete myth.

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what we have here...is a failure to communicate

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WMMFGT (or am I in COMPLETELY the wrong thread)

I woke up, the sun is shining, I didn't have an accident on the way to work, I have money in my pocket, a roof over my head, food in my tummy...I am grateful for what I have got,

Can we now keep this thread for it's intended use WHAT MADE US FEEL GOOD TODAY,  not Let's bash the government over their abysmal IT record....move that to another thread please....

 

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the problems with starting conversations is that they sometimes take a turn for worse

Friday - reasonable weather forecast for the weekend - nice long walks - lenses to try out - possible downside of course will be the total lack of any birds to practice on

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a few mediocre pics

This is getting far too serious.

Time for some refreshment (contains lots of shouting and may mean you have to wipe coffee off your monitor)

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Kidography. It's like photography. But more fun.

Jonathan Ryan:

This is getting far too serious. Time for some refreshment (contains lots of shouting and may mean you have to wipe coffee off your monitor)

 

    Yeah Right!  Come on guys, It's the weekend! LET'S PARTY!

 

                       Graham.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Coming in a bit late (only have access to computer at weekends at the mo)but congratulations JD.

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