Picked up the latest edition, skipped straight to the reviews. Pentax K20D and Sony A200.

Hmm, both are marked down for not doing things the canikon way. So what. It's subjective. I personally cannot stand the handling of the entry level canons. Nikon is better, but there is a considerable amount of acclimatisation to a different brand of camera.

Kit lenses on both are knocked. Ok, kit lenses are down to a price, rather than up to a standard. But did that ever mean 10% off a 350/400D review?

Two of DCmag's competitors have both reviewed the A350, giving it both a high rating, and in a comparison test, outgunning the D60 (which is priced about the same RRP) in traditionally strong Nikon areas such as colour rendition. One even tested noise levels against the 400D - accepted as a strong low noise camera - which the A350 came out with flying colours. I suspect that Rod will probably mark it at around 78%, because it handles like a Sony.

The comment about the fact that if the K20D was in a 40D body it would be irresistable - now is that knocking the Pentax handling, or the Canon lack of improvement and innovation

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And Carl this is exactly what confuses people like myself, I was set on saving a little then getting a Pentax K10D nearly there with the money and the K20/K200 comes out along with Nikons D60 Canons 450D et al, CUE total confusion on those who are unsure what to buy, spend enough money on mags that you would probably be halfway towards a nice lens filter or two, I am now unsure as to the difference between the Pentax K10D and the K200D (I know the K20 has more "Stuff")

For example on the Jessops site

This K200D Ultimate Bundle consists of :

1 x Pentax K200D + 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 Lens (5130684)

1 x Tamron 70-300mm F4/5.6 DI LD Macro (Pentax AF) (5123014)

1 x Jessops 300AFD Digital Flashgun (Pentax) (5110800)

1 x Jessops Everyday SD Memory Card 2GB (5114978)

1 x Jessops BC1400 Charger with 4x 2700mAh AA Batteries (5111880

All for £653.99 but a Canon EOS 400D kit with a bit more stuff for £629.99 knock off the £45.00 Cashback from Canon and you've got yourself a nice set up for less than £600.00 and the Nikon D60 is roughly the same sort of deal with cashback etc.....THE ONLY THING that makes me lean towards the Pentax K200 is the fact it takes AA batteries which are pretty much available anywhere in the world (not that I do much foreign travel but you know what I mean)

So how is a relative newcomer like myself ever supposed to know what to look for in a camera when they keep upgrading them every 3 months or so...And yes I have had a touchy feely of all of them and am STILL undecided what to get, need to get back down there have a proper play and then decide. But for someone looking to come into photography as a complete newbie the choices are somewhat overwhelming imo and it is no wonder the CHOOSING EQUIPMENT thread is full of "what camera shall I buy" questions....

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Keith

krennon, and the very reason mostnew people to dslr's end up buying Canon or Nikon even if it is not the right camera for them, because they are the brand leaders.

Ask your self one question , can you tell by looking at a photograph which camera took it? And if not, why not go on your own personel preference (which seems to be Pentax) and walk your own path rather than be led. There really are no bad DSLR's these days.

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Paul
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That's a valid point. Many mags now don't post the camera used, dcmag does. But would any tom, *** or harry get the same shot with the same kit?

The K20D is weathersealed, as far as I'm aware, the 450D isn't, so may be a factor in decisions.

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Paul/Carl

Your points are completely valid, I think what I am trying to say (rather badly sorry) is if you are a newcomer to DSLR then choosing the "right camera" is an absolute minefield, and as we always say yes read the reviews set your budget then go and have a touchy feely play of the kit and see which suits you best, now here's a potential market a "try before you buy" type scheme put a big fat deposit down try your camera for a week then make a decision from there......

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Keith

Hmm, as long as it's more than one review, for the reasons mentioned above. Remember the posts received when the D300 was reviewed in similar fashion?

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krennon:

 if you are a newcomer to DSLR then choosing the "right camera" is an absolute minefield, 

 "try before you buy" type scheme put a big fat deposit down try your camera for a week then make a decision from there......

 

It's not just a minefield for a newcomer either.  I've had dilemas recently looking to upgrade my camera.  One thing I don't tend to do is take much notice of teh reviews.  They are always biased (if not because of financial or other incentives tehn just by teh reviewers personal preferences).  I do use them as a guide to features and improvements on newer cameras as it saves me trawling the manufacturers sites. 

When I bought my first DSLR I bought a second hand E-1.  This was a camera I had looked at a year before but couldn't afford.  I got it second hand for £350 on the thinking that if I had paid £1000 for it new last year I would still be happy with it.  You do seem swayed towards Pentax (and to be honest, I can see why.  I certainly would give them a look.  Why not look for a second hand K10?  If you like it and the Pentax brand/system then you have an upgrade path in the future (the K20, or maybe K30...).  If you don't then you won't loose very much (if any) money by selling it and switching brands.   But you will have had a year (as an example) to play with the camera, get to know what you like and dislike about it, and therefore know what to look for in your next purchase. 

Olympus have met every single improvement with the E-3 that I had on my wishlist.  Unfortunately they also removed a couple of things (which I have now found a work around thanks to another posting), and added a lot that I'll never use.  But I knew what needed to be improved from the E-1 only because I have used it for 16 months.

As for trying before you buy, this is where your local camera store can be really helpful.  I was given mine for a week to try (well, I bought it) on the basis of if I didn't like it they would take it back and I could have a credit towards another camera .  I also got a 6 month warrenty with the camera (remember it was second hand). 

Don't take any notice of the reviews.  Decide what spec you would like and what is important to you, be it MP, weather sealing, live view, the lenses available, the size and weight, etc, etc.  Then find a cameras that meets these requirements within your budget.  When you have it in your hand, if it feels right, buy it  

 

I have some walking boots.  Never read a walking magazine before, went in the shop with a list of gripes about my old boots and came away with a perfect set of new boots.  I have used them heavily (well outside of their intended/marketed use as well) for 5 years now without complaint.  They still look well and are waterproof.  The missus buys Trail magazine every so often.  My boots were recently in there "3 season boots test".  They are exactly the same boot as I purchased 5 years ago but are still sold (a testiment to the design and build I think).  Yet the reviewer, after wearing them for just one weekend, marked them down because he "suspects" that the durability of the boot will not be very long.  I'd like to throw mine in his face but then I remembered, I don't read reviews for this reason

Reviews in magazines are toilet reading for me.  I save them for glancing over sometime, when I have a spare minute or two

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Reviewing DSLRs is really a bit of a waste of time. They're all pretty similar. After you've used a camera for a while you'll have an idea of how good the reviews were. Not everyone wants the same things from a camera so all you need to concentrate on is what makes it a good camera for you - not the reviewer. It's like the replies to 'what's a good walkaround lens' questions. Lots of people suggesting something like a 17-40mm or 18-50mm will cover everything you need - not if you photograph flying birds it won't! So certain things are top of the list for some people but unimportant for others.
I loved the E-1 and the Fuji S3Pro but in the end it was things like speed of AF and processing/buffer which were just too frustrating - if I'd been photographing people or landscapes it would'nt have mattered.

Boots? I got some Barbour walking boots from an ebay shop - fantastic and wearing very well - so good I bought another pair to keep for best!

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martin_hurton:

...I have some walking boots.  Never read a walking magazine before, went in the shop with a list of gripes about my old boots and came away with a perfect set of new boots...

This made me laugh... I did something similar to this about 5 years ago after my Zamberlan's finally gave up the struggle. I ended coming out with a pair of LaSportiva boots - a brand I'd heard of but never used - and they're still going strong five years later. They're as comfortable as a pair of slippers!

martin_hurton:

...Reviews in magazines are toilet reading for me.  I save them for glancing over sometime, when I have a spare minute or two

I wondered if I was the only one! Mine are all stacked up on the windowsill in the bathroom. I find the reviews in DC mag to be a bit 'thin' to be honest. They seem to skate over an awful lot of detail. I remember reading the review on the 40D and found myself wanting to know more than was contained in the article. When I was researching the upgrade from my 400D, I went straight to www.dpreview.com - now they know how to do a write-up.

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Si
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I've got three pair of boots but tend to use the one pair all the time. They are covered in mud but still waterproof and keep my feet nice and warm. I wash them by paddling in the lake, but so much rain lately it's a waste of time.

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SK
The Best Photographer in the world 4th November - 5th November 2006 & 17th-18 November 2007
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Keeping to the current topic of boots...

My 3 season boots are Chiruca Trekking. Cost me £25, gore-tex and I'm like a kid, splashing through puddles in them....

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Spiritflier:

I find the reviews in DC mag to be a bit 'thin' to be honest. They seem to skate over an awful lot of detail. I remember reading the review on the 40D and found myself wanting to know more than was contained in the article. When I was researching the upgrade from my 400D, I went straight to www.dpreview.com - now they know how to do a write-up.

I agree - the reviews in magazines really are poor quality. They don't even give the full spec, which can be downloaded from the manufacturer's website. They're also very biased towards Canon and Nikon. Online reviews are much better.

However, I don't think anything's ideal. When buying into a system, it's important to know just a little about that system. Most reviews of the Nikon D60 don't even mention that it won't autofocus with half of Nikon's lens range!

Any entry level DSLR will give more functionality than the highest spec film SLR did from ten years ago, so you can't go wrong. Manufacturers want to keep us in a constant state of dissatisfaction with the equipment we buy. It's important not to give in to them. Each upgrade only makes a marginal improvement over the previous model.

There's really so little difference between what any of the manufacturers produce. Many years ago, the main entry level SLRs included:

• Olympus OM10
• Nikon EM
• Canon AV1
• Pentax ME (I don't mean the Super, that came later)

There were untold numbers of reviews and comparisons debating the merits or otherwise. Guess what? They pretty much all had the same spec, and you'd take the same pictures on any of them! We'll look back on today's cameras in much the same way, I think.

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You've got me thinking now Chris...

Wouldn't it be good if a manufacturer made a body along the lines of the old Olympus OM1n... A basic model for beginners to photography with no frills apart from a clear viewfinder, good old manual mode, no scene modes, no multi-zone focussing - just a central AF point.

Olympus could call it the OM-1D. Canon could call it the EOS 1000D and Nikon could have a D101.

It'd need a screen on the back obviously and the ability to be powered easily... Price would also be under £100.

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Si
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Si you've just suggested what I have been thinking for years, when I was about 14 my old man bought me either a Pentax or a Practika (for the life of me I cannot remember what it was now but it was 25 years ago now) it was brilliant easy to use and had a horizon line in the viewfinder (bit like the horizon level on a flight sim game) now WHY can't they incorporate that into a DSLR the amount of shots I have binned 'cos they're 2 or 3 degrees skewed and look b l o o d y awful (my fault I know), so a proper viewfinder (no liveview) a horizon line, a basic 18-55 lens, as Si says no scene modes, basic Auto focus and takes AA batteries but other than that completely manual, for say £300 and backward/current/future lens compatibility, how could they do it for this price, 'cos you've stripped out all the scene modes/multi point focussing/live view etc trouble is that part of the "technology" is already written in stone now so no-one will be willing to do it....

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Keith

Spiritflier:

Wouldn't it be good if a manufacturer made a body along the lines of the old Olympus OM1n... A basic model for beginners to photography with no frills apart from a clear viewfinder, good old manual mode, no scene modes, no multi-zone focussing - just a central AF point.

My favourite two cameras I've ever owned (excluding my current D50) were the OM1n and the Pentax ME Super. Solid and dependable.

I went back to complete manual a few weeks ago. Don't use auto at all, apart from for flash, and that's only when I'm taking snaps of the family or using fill in. Any serious flash work is done using manual settings and chimping/guide numbers.

I just decided that I'd like to take control of what's going on. My exposures are much more accurate now - less faffing in Photoshop, just a quick RAW conversion. I concentrate on the LCD image and histogram, choosing my own shutter speed and aperture.

I always set white balance manually, selecting a pre-set or taking a reading.

To be honest, even though the manufacturers try to sell you all sorts of buzzwords to do with metering (my camera apparently has '3D colour matrix metering II'), I don't think my D50 has a better hit rate on auto than the Nikon EM that I owned nearly thrity years ago.

Focus with wide aperture lenses is more accurate manually, especially since I installed a Katz Eye focusing screen. This has the old fresnel and cross-hairs that the old cameras had.

Funny though, I don't seem to be missing any shots.    

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Chris Seary

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