Hello from Bright and Breezey Sheffy.
Now then,Question for everyone,for maybe too long now ive been doing most of my stuff with wide apertures,and have become a bit stuck in the "lots of depth of field" rut,so,i want to start doing some shots where everything in the pic is sharp,i know this may lead to pics looking flat,but thats another story.
So,i know that smaller Apertures lend themselves to shallower DOF,but,i want sharpness right across the shot, ie if i place some coloured cubes equaly distant in depth and width,how do i get them all sharp ?
My D80 is a great piece of kit,i regard it as pro spec,has all the gizmos,focul points,DOF preview(which i find a complete waste of time),and i have been messing around(see the Bass pic in my gallery) a bit,just cant seem to nail what i will call "total sharpness"........help please.

Thanks

bill stewardson

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"the best photographer in the world 12/13 May 07" bigbilly

Big Bill's Gallery

myspace.com/billstewardson
photobilly.co.uk

Hi Bill,

You should find everything you need here:

http://community.dcmag.co.uk/forums/thread/743367.aspx

Cheers, Peter.

    Hello Peter,

Yep.remember all the HF stuff when it was going on,ie the Focul; plane,= one third in front,2 thirds behind.And,i sort of understood the HF ideal,and looked at the charts provided etc etc.
But,all that stuff assumes straight away that there are areas you dont want in focus,,,,,just to illustrate my point a bit better,a plain block,one in each extreme corner of the image,and one dead centre,,,,,how do i get them all in focus in one shot ?lets say there are 5 blocks in total,laid out in your front room,,,,all six feet apart,and one bang in the middle,,,one shot,,all in focus,,,how ?(without any cropping)

I do apologise if i,m talking utter Codswallop

bill stewardson

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"the best photographer in the world 12/13 May 07" bigbilly

Big Bill's Gallery

myspace.com/billstewardson
photobilly.co.uk

I am not an expert Bill, but it all depend on the lens and focal length. To try what you would want I would use a wide angle lens, a tripod, f16 and longish exposure.

I am now waiting to be shot down by the experts.LOL

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My Gallery

As far as I know, you can't do it perfectly, as it's all about sacrifice.

 

You can stop it down as much as you want and this will increase the DOF, so if thats what you want then go for it, but after you get to a certain point (I think its either f9 or f11) general sharpness and resolution begins to decrease due to defraction (I think)

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TBPITW 13-14th Sept 08

Diffraction should be not a problem upto f16. 

 http://www.earthboundlight.com/phototips/diffraction-small-apertures.html

I am not claiming that is the ultimate link for diffraction, but he knows a lot more about it than me!

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My Gallery

big bill:

    .........But,all that stuff assumes straight away that there are areas you dont want in focus,,,,,just to illustrate my point a bit better,a plain block,one in each extreme corner of the image,and one dead centre,,,,,how do i get them all in focus in one shot ?lets say there are 5 blocks in total,laid out in your front room,,,,all six feet apart,and one bang in the middle,,,one shot,,all in focus,,,how ?(without any cropping)

I do apologise if i,m talking utter Codswallop

bill stewardson

As others have said, the DOF will depend on the focal length of your lens, your distance from the subject and sensor size. To increase DOF you need to stop down the lens to a small (ish) aperture but in doing this you are likely to loose some sharpness as lenses tend to soften, especially at the edges, at either end of their aperture range.

You can download a DOF calculator, Matt posted a good link in the Hyperfocal thread, get yourself a measuring tape, some chalk and a calculator, then work it out based on the measurements for your actual shot whislt wearing a white lab coat. Or:

At an aperture of say, F16-F18, focus just behind the nearest block and see what happens, play around with apertures and focus points until you find the mix that is the best compromise in terms of DOF and sharpness. It's part of the fun of learning, I don't think the DOF Police will come around and beat you up if you take a few practice shots, at least I hope they won't.

Cheers, Peter.

    Hello from very wet Sheffy.

I wont be worrying about the DOF Police,just trying to find a way to go out and take a string of different shots,of different things,under different conditions and have the pics sharp from front to back,and right across.
The point re staying away from the extreme focul lengths of the lenses in use has caught my attention,as has the relevance of distance form the subject,i,ll keep fiddling about,and will get there in the end.
Thanks to all.

bill stewardson

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"the best photographer in the world 12/13 May 07" bigbilly

Big Bill's Gallery

myspace.com/billstewardson
photobilly.co.uk

big bill:

    .........just trying to find a way to go out and take a string of different shots,of different things,under different conditions and have the pics sharp from front to back,and right across.
The point re staying away from the extreme focul lengths of the lenses in use has caught my attention,as has the relevance of distance form the subject,i,ll keep fiddling about,and will get there in the end.
Thanks to all.

bill stewardson

Hi Bill,

You don't need to worry about right across, by this I take it you mean left to right? DOF relates to the distance from the camera to the subject in a straight line, everything perpendicular to that straight line will be in focus. If you take an imaginary line from the centre of your sensor, which passes down the centre of your lens, where that line meets an object that is in focus, everything perpendicular to the left and right of it will also be in focus, come to think of it, up and down as well, unless you are using a "lens Baby".

Cheers, Peter.

    Thanks Peter.
So,,,,,taking on board all of the above,,and understanding the logic behind it,there is always going to be a way to have "totaly sharp" shots,thing i was not allowing for was my distance from the object,as in the Bass Guitar shot in my front room,i was as far from that as i could manage,using my telephoto,thing i have to do now,is consider this when i,m out and about,and,when its not possible,,use a wide angle,interesting stuff.

again,thanks to all

bill stewardson

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"the best photographer in the world 12/13 May 07" bigbilly

Big Bill's Gallery

myspace.com/billstewardson
photobilly.co.uk

Hi, Bill.  The problem with your quest is that not all lenses are equal - as much as we would like the cheapest to be as good as the dearest they aint ever gonna be.  So coming to terms with what you have can be a bit of an experiment. But in general, the optimum aperture that will deliver the best subject sharpness is around 2 stops up from your widest aperture.  For most of us that means around f8, f11, f16 depending where your lens starts.  The best results come from lenses that have a wide maximum aperture - f1 - 1.5, 2, 2.8 that sort of thing, because the optimum will come from a wider aperture like 5.6 enabling faster shutter speeds to be used with lower iso ratings.  but the trade off is always depth of field I'm afraid.  The problem with narrow apertures like f22 etc is defraction, so I never go much beyond f11 personally, which is optimum for my particular lens.  There is a lot of info about diffraction and optimum lens apertures if you google.  All part of the learning curve.  If hand holding your camera pay more attention to shutter speeds.  For rock steady sharpness work from a tripod. (I should practise that more myself)

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    Hello from Chilly Sheffy.

Cheers Keith,,maybe i spent too much time working with wide apertures,,,,one thing which does now occur to me,,,if you have two objects at slightly different distances from the lens,,you aint never gonna get them both in sharp focus,,,,,are you ?

bill stewardson

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"the best photographer in the world 12/13 May 07" bigbilly

Big Bill's Gallery

myspace.com/billstewardson
photobilly.co.uk

big bill:

    Hello from Chilly Sheffy.

Cheers Keith,,maybe i spent too much time working with wide apertures,,,,one thing which does now occur to me,,,if you have two objects at slightly different distances from the lens,,you aint never gonna get them both in sharp focus,,,,,are you ?

bill stewardson

Two words: Tilt Shift

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James De Vile
digitalcameramagazine.co.uk
Future Publishing

Although normally applied in macrophotography, you could always try focus stacking - it works for any type of photography as long as the subjects are stationary. This allows you to shoot at more open apertures around F11 or less and avoid diffraction softening.

Tutorial here http://www.wonderfulphotos.com/articles/macro/focus_stacking/

 

Brian V.

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Brian V.
DCM Gallery
My Flickr Gallery

LordV:

Although normally applied in macrophotography, you could always try focus stacking - it works for any type of photography as long as the subjects are stationary. This allows you to shoot at more open apertures around F11 or less and avoid diffraction softening.

Tutorial here http://www.wonderfulphotos.com/articles/macro/focus_stacking/

 

Brian V.

Thanks for the info LordV. Often wondered how you did stacking.

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SK
The Best Photographer in the world 4th November - 5th November 2006 & 17th-18 November 2007
Oldboy’s Gallery