Shadow_Wolf:

Steve Polky:

Oh I forgot to add ... I'd shoot all Nikon, Canon and Photoshop users because all they do is moan all day and clog up the forums

When do you get rid of your EOS 350D then

 

Ha already got rid of it

I've been away from DCM for a while and came across this thread, I wasn't going to butt in until I saw posts advocating national service.

As a SNCO in the RAF can I just say a big no thanks to the idea?  Take a long look at the modern armed services, the kit is high tech, even for the grunts, the last thing we need is a bunch of idiots.  Self discipline comes from within, if you want us to take on the idiots you'll have to gag the anti-bullying brigade because the only way to get them into shape would be to bully them into submission.  That would just embitter them towards society and their seniors and make them utterly useless to anyone, especially in the field.

My Dad was a national serviceman, he detested every second and still resents the theft of two years of his life and career.

It is tough to join the RAF, there are still more applicants than places, we don't want people getting in the way of the good lads and lasses.

Think of the salary bill, the cash will have to come from somewhere else - how do you fancy an even smaller and more cash strapped NHS? or maybe abolish the state pension?


Please stop thinking of national service as some kind of cure for the problems with SOME of this country's youth because it wouldn't work on so many levels.

I don't know what the cure is, frankly I don't even believe the problems are new, they are just reported more frequently than before.

Rant over

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Al Birmingham Photography

Alister,

I am 17, still in school and a member of the ATC (Air Training Corps)

i wont rant on for long, but im in complete agreement with you, the armed services are good however national service cant be re-instated!

and being 17 and in school, i've seen first hand some of the things the 'youth of today' get up to, even in the last 4 years from wen i started secondary school, there has been a significant difference in the behaviour of younger students, me and my friends often say even when we were in year7 we never behaved liek they do, in fact nobody did!!

And as a member of the ATC, which was quite harsh and strict wen i joined, people didnt mess around, has deterioated, i am now a Sgt and have noticed all younger cadets, they just have no respect whatsoever! in addition our power has been limited, we can no longer make cadets washup, clean, so pressups as punishment which i was made to do!

in short schools need to get tougher, parents need to get tougher, and prehaps organisations such as the ATC and army cadets, D of E should be made compulsory as part of school curriculm to bosst disapline, also organisations such as the ATC need to be tougher as well!!

sorry for any text talk and spelling mistakes in there! i type to quickly :p!

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Alex

Amature Alex:

and being 17 and in school, i've seen first hand some of the things the 'youth of today' get up to, even in the last 4 years from wen i started secondary school, there has been a significant difference in the behaviour of younger students, me and my friends often say even when we were in year7 we never behaved liek they do, in fact nobody did!!

You sound like I did at 17, the fact is we were all as bad, and now you are more mature you can see things in a different light.  I am not being condescending, it is a fact you will oon think that the 17 year olds are less well behaved than you were.

"Younger ones have no discipline....we can't punish them with the washing up and press ups etc"

The press ups thing has even been abolished by the RAF Regiment - a long time ago.  Basically you need to justify such duties as training or housekeeping, if you make them punishments then you are bullying. That is a fact I have been working to for many years.  You need to lead by example, win their respect by showing that you can do it too.  Punish only by the book - in your case that means report them to your superiors.  It strikes me that your Sqn is suffering from a lack of leadership at the highest level, making your job very tough.  One good tip for increasing discipline and teamwork is to get them doing team jobs and making errant teams forfeit together, not as individuals.

"Make them join the ATC, CCF etc"

Then your problems will really start!  Clearly you are proud of your involvement in the ATC and I applaud you but do you think you'd enjoy it if it were full of kids who were there against their will?

Parents do need to take more responsibility, as do schools and indeed all adults, how often do we see people doing nothing when kids are behaving badly in the town centre?  If the law were to support us better and more people got involved things would improve.

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Al Birmingham Photography

The year 7's at our school just keep getting shorter and cockier each year.

As for the ATC, I know someone at my St John's that has left there to go to the Air Cadets and his bro goes bablake private school and the cadet himself coudon and i'm sure pretty bright and does the normal rugby stuff etc... So not from the 'geeky warhammer' crew

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I started smoking at 13, two of my mates never went to school, this was in the '80's.

The fact is people see different parts of society at different stages of their lives, just because you didn't see kids behave badly when you were young that doesn'y mean it wasn't happening. Pick up a history book and read about how kids behaved and were treated in the 1800's.

As for the ATC?  It and organisations like it have a lot to offer those kids that want to benefit from them, especially when properly run.  The ATC has the huge advantage that every squadron is parented by an RAF base and cadets are given (if things are run properly) an opprtunity to fly in military aircraft.  The ATC squadron has only got to pick up the phone and it can arrange visits to RAF bases at no cost to themselves other than transport arrangements.  We often host visits on my squadron, the kids range from geeks to sports billy types and once they are in uniform their social background is no longer relevant.

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Al Birmingham Photography

Yup - certainly enjoyed my time in the ATC gettting to fly, yes fly, (with a bit of help from Biggles of course) a variety of aircraft that I'll bet even Alister hasn't had the experience of being in. To mind come first and foremost the good old Chipie of course and thereafter such greats as the Shackleton MK1 and II, early Comets, Meteor, that thing which took over from the Shackleton (name evades me now - old age) and which nobody has confidence in and of course the highlight - a Spitfire. I'd clocked up something over 50 flying hours before joining the Senior Service against everyone but my parents wishes, mine included but that's another story. The only flying I do now, excluding holiday flights which are as boring as hell, are gliders. Angles and dangles I love em but always have red ears afterward that I have received from the wife who hates it - but that's of course why I do it.

That 'thing' would be the Nimrod Alan, the oldest ones were converted comets!

When they decided to upgrade them and give them new wings they were amazed to discover that each aircraft had its own tailor made wings, unlike the modern 'modular' designs.  That meant they had to re-think their plans to build the wings in advance!

I too flew in chipmumks, some of the shakletons were still in service when I joined but not for long.  The rest were already history.

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Al Birmingham Photography

Nimrod - of course it was, silly me. One more I was struggling to recall was the Lightning - man could that shift for it's time. I remember feeling a bit like a Knight with that pointy thíng sticking out the front.

Adesw said that only geeky kids seem to go to air cadets (i havent worked out how to quote lol)

well wat i find is that the geeky kids tend to make it more known to everyone they are part of the Air Cadets, simply because they get to say i get to fly and shoot guns, and they do this to try and big them selves up because their geeks! where as... 'non-geeks'?? well everyone else who goes doesnt really mention it unless asked, i dont because i dont need to!! and thats why a lot of people its for geeks!

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Alex

I have come to the conclusion that there is only one thing wrong with this country: people.  Without people it would be a peaceful place to be.  Of course, when I say people, I mean those I don't like.  The rest can stay.

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KeithT:

I have come to the conclusion that there is only one thing wrong with this country: people.  Without people it would be a peaceful place to be.  Of course, when I say people, I mean those I don't like.  The rest can stay.

Thanks for letting me stay, I assume!

To be really truthful, most of the people in this country are great, it just the very small numbers of scum, around 50,000 or so, who cause all the problems. Years ago these problems were nipped in the bud, by the local copper giving them a clip around the earhole. The PC brigade have ruined the situation, so if a copper look at you twice you can have him charged with assult and infringement of their human rights!!!!!!

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SK
The Best Photographer in the world 4th November - 5th November 2006 & 17th-18 November 2007
Oldboy’s Gallery

OldBoy:

KeithT:

I have come to the conclusion that there is only one thing wrong with this country: people.  Without people it would be a peaceful place to be.  Of course, when I say people, I mean those I don't like.  The rest can stay.

Thanks for letting me stay, I assume!

Hope your bags are packed - you're included in the first export shipment. Oh, and before you ask - it's a one way ticket.

Alan Ingham:

OldBoy:

KeithT:

I have come to the conclusion that there is only one thing wrong with this country: people.  Without people it would be a peaceful place to be.  Of course, when I say people, I mean those I don't like.  The rest can stay.

Thanks for letting me stay, I assume!

Hope your bags are packed - you're included in the first export shipment. Oh, and before you ask - it's a one way ticket.

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SK
The Best Photographer in the world 4th November - 5th November 2006 & 17th-18 November 2007
Oldboy’s Gallery

I agree about having a proper local Bobby, that would prevent a lot of problems.

Alan, the until the Typhoon came into service the Lightning was the last fighter the RAF had that could go vertical on its backside and accelerate upwards.  An awesome plane and if it had better fuel economy it would still have a place on the world stage!  Its top speed is still an official secret.

So what's wrong with the country?? Tha lack of local Bobbies, lack of respect for older people, Gordon Brown, Big Brother, talent shows and the fact that football is always on the tele.

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Al Birmingham Photography