ABERS:

OldBoy:

English is a minefield where grammar is involved. Most spellings depend on usage, so the more it is used even if wrong, the more correct it becomes.

So we just perpetuate sloppiness!

No, it's part of an evolutionary process as the language develops - people are inherently lazy. However, any evolutions must ensure that the precisions of the language are not affected. This is where sloppiness has its greatest detrimental impact and leads to ambiguity in the expression.

However, sloppiness in spelling isn't nearly as bad as improper use of punctuation, which can change the meaning of the sentence entirely.

If you want a real lesson in grammar, then have a butcher's at some Dickens - fantastic use of grammar and punctuation.

H.

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hevans:

However, sloppiness in spelling isn't nearly as bad as improper use of punctuation, which can change the meaning of the sentence entirely.

If you want a real lesson in grammar, then have a butcher's at some Dickens - fantastic use of grammar and punctuation.

H.

Sloppiness is sloppiness whether in spelling or grammar. As for Charles Dickens ever being read or seen in schools and held as an example of correct use of the English language, don't hold your breath. Perhaps a couple of lessons with Mr Creakle or Wackford Squeers might shake 'em up a little!

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ABERS:

OldBoy:

English is a minefield where grammar is involved. Most spellings depend on usage, so the more it is used even if wrong, the more correct it becomes.

So we just perpetuate sloppiness!

Now I didn't suggest that at all. I was only pointing out that English, as a language, changes with time. What might be correct a hundred years ago may not be so today. English is a 'bas*ard' language, as it takes words from other languages to expand its usage, unlike French, which restricts words that can be added to its base. One of the best proponents of this was Shakespeare who, if he couldn't find a word to suit, would invent one.

This also applies to grammar, where usage changes the way it is used, so for example we had E-mail, when this word first appeared, but usage has changed this to email. Neither of these is right or wrong, but the former is seldom used today.

 

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SK
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ABERS:

hevans:

However, sloppiness in spelling isn't nearly as bad as improper use of punctuation, which can change the meaning of the sentence entirely.

If you want a real lesson in grammar, then have a butcher's at some Dickens - fantastic use of grammar and punctuation.

H.

Sloppiness is sloppiness whether in spelling or grammar. As for Charles Dickens ever being read or seen in schools and held as an example of correct use of the English language, don't hold your breath. Perhaps a couple of lessons with Mr Creakle or Wackford Squeers might shake 'em up a little!

I agree that poor English, particular in the native speakers, should be railed against. However, after many years of viewing the creative spelling in common usage, particularly on the internet, there's no point in getting unduly upset. If you want to lead a thankless existence, then you can happily spend the remainder of your life recommeding corrections. You do retain the right to rant about it, though .

There are, however, sites where poor spelling or grammar is inexcusable: news sites and other professional communication sites. I'm also quite fond of taking a marker pen to a poorly worded sign and correcting it.

H.

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I should have known how this would have turned out...wish I hadn't asked now  

From my point of view (for what it is worth), I left school 13 years ago, wasn't great at English even then, but I can read and write (even if it's not always correct!).  I haven't had to write very much since then, it's not something that I am required to do in my job and so I admit that what I did learn has slipped.  I guess we all have our strengths and for some it's English grammar, for others it might be mathematics, etc. 

The English language is changing a lot, and I spent a good part of my career working with American kit so all of what I read and was trained on was written in American.  There are lots of spelling differences and I still use the American spellings now without realizing   I now find the same with the English language, as OB pointed out, especially with the internet.  Thank god I've avoided text messages!

I don't think that it is necessary to look down on people who can't spell or use grammar as well as you can.  They could look down on you for not understanding quantum physics...

ABERS:

How important do you think a title is? Almost everyone gives their images titles, me included. Should a picture not be able to stand alone?

I have a friend who is adept at finding the right words for a title to his pictures, but the pictures are cr*p, and he will admit it. But he says people will say of him in the future, "He couldn't take a picture to save his life, but his titles were something else".

I don't bother with titles for every image, and my own collection doesn't have any, but when uploading to my website I put a title, usually factual such as the place name.  For competition uploads it requires a brief statement about the image, and a title.  When you visit a gallery you don't see "_DC2745934" written below the image do you?  It's not difficult to change the name to "Lake View" or "Snowdon" for display purposes. 

 

Class dismissed

 

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Talking of sloppiness, and the one sloppy grammatical error that really gets my goat....

Someone tell me what's wrong with the following sentences.

"The Digital Camera magazine team are working hard on their next issue."
or
"Tesco are selling cucumbers far cheaper than Asda. I wonder why they can do that."
or
"Liverpool FC have some good players, but they won't survive long in this tournament"

well instead of  "are" working hard which suggests a group of individuals it should be "is" as the "dc mag team" is a unit..
as is tesco and the football club..
and yes i am aware i didnt use capitals and proper punctuation but thats just laziness..

"EDIT"
 didn't read the whole thing..
should be "I wonder "how" they can do that"
and I'm leavin the last one for someone else..
do i get a gold star?

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DCmag Team:

Talking of sloppiness, and the one sloppy grammatical error that really gets my goat.... Someone tell me what's wrong with the following sentences. "The Digital Camera magazine team are working hard on their next issue." or "Tesco are selling cucumbers far cheaper than Asda. I wonder why they can do that." or "Liverpool FC have some good players, but they won't survive long in this tournament"

........its next issue

.......it can do that

.......it won't survive long......

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All this reminds me of the biggest clanger of all. STAR TREK, where the narrator says "To boldly go". It is like saying "the little boy fast ran" putting the adverb before the verb.

Write-'the colour of the flower'-thus avoiding contentious pluralisms.

DCmag Team:

"The Digital Camera magazine team are working hard on their next issue."

Should read

The DCmag Team is sitting around drinking tea and eyeing up the Girls from Heat Magazine – sod the next issue

"Tesco are selling cucumbers far cheaper than Asda. I wonder why they can do that."

Should read

Cucumbers are tasteless watery junk and should be banned

Liverpool FC have some good players, but they won't survive long in this tournament"

Should read

Who cares about football? Get a life.

JD, have you used lightrrom Mogrify add in? you can do borders and get the text from, say, the name field in the Metadata

It get's this...

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martin_hurton:

I should have known how this would have turned out...wish I hadn't asked now

Yup...I know that feeling.

The English language is changing a lot, and I spent a good part of my career working with American kit so all of what I read and was trained on was written in American.  There are lots of spelling differences and I still use the American spellings now without realizing   I now find the same with the English language, as OB pointed out, especially with the internet.  Thank god I've avoided text messages!

This was largely my point: the language is evolving and there's genuinely no official rules of the road.

I don't think that it is necessary to look down on people who can't spell or use grammar as well as you can.  They could look down on you for not understanding quantum physics...

I don't look down on those who can't spell (at least I hope that isn't conveyed as it's not intended), but it's nice if an effort is made to improve if an error is corrected. The rules of syntax are there for a reason. Usually the largest group of offenders is the computer programming lot, but you'll find them perniciously pedantic about the syntax in their C/Perl/Python/Java code, and yet phenomenally sloppy with their written English.

Anyone that says they understand QP doesn't understand it. Anyone that says they don't understand QP is probably correct. But if you make the measurement, then you've probably changed the experiment - that's what makes it fun!

ABERS:

How important do you think a title is? Almost everyone gives their images titles, me included. Should a picture not be able to stand alone?

I usually title the photos to provide a short-cut when browsing by file name, or as a textual reference. If when browsing someone's gallery you say, "I really like photo DSC4324.jpg", they'll usually have to look it up to discover of which photo you spoke. Whereas if you said," I like the photo 'beaten frog'.", then they'll immediately recall which one you like.

martin_hurton:

Class dismissed

Sir, can I go to the tuck shop??

H.

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DCmag Team:

Talking of sloppiness, and the one sloppy grammatical error that really gets my goat....

Someone tell me what's wrong with the following sentences.

"The Digital Camera magazine team are working hard on their next issue."

... it never happens?

(Edit: Yeah yeah, after posting this, I saw Pete B's reply...)

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Nice one Pete - gave me a good giggle.

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DCmag Team:

Talking of sloppiness, and the one sloppy grammatical error that really gets my goat.... Someone tell me what's wrong with the following sentences.

"The Digital Camera magazine team are working hard on their next issue."

Should that be:
"The Digital Camera magazine team is hardly working on its next issue?"

H.

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